Looking for a UX job? Although job hunting can be a challenge, there are people who can help! Our special guest Crystal Pettibone is an Account Manager from Aquent who specializes in filling UX design roles. She explains how agency recruiters collaborate with hiring managers and coach designers to find the “perfect fit.”
Helpful Links
Simplehuman trashcan – short video from Simplehuman, if you’re curious about the trashcan Evan mentioned.
Aquent/Vitamin T – if you’d like to learn more about Aquent’s services and investigate how they might help your own job search.
The Design (Psychology) of Everyday Things – Don Norman’s famous book on developing your “designer’s eye” to notice the user experiences all around us.
More Ascend UX Content
Visit the Ascend UX podcast’s website for more episodes.
Contact Us
We love your questions and feedback! Please send them to ascendux@pros.com. We read every message and may use your question in a future show.
Ayan Bihi or Evan Sunwall are always happy to connect with listeners on LinkedIn. Just add a note mentioning the show in your invitation.
Credits
Thanks to Ultravice and Lakey Inspired for the use of their music.
Thanks to our producer and editor Brandon Robinson.
This show is created by PROS and the PROS UX Team.
Copyright 2020 Ascend UX. All rights reserved.
Episode 2 - recruiters
Evan: [00:00:06] Howdy friends, this is the Ascend UX podcast. A show about the experience of user experience design. I'm Evan Sunwall.
Ayan: [00:00:35] I am Ayan Bihi
Evan: [00:00:36] Ayan, I had a user experience moment this past week.
Ayan: [00:00:39] Oh, what happened?
Evan: [00:00:41] So this is something that Don Norman talks about. He's the author of the Design or the Psychology of everyday things. He actually, I think, renamed the books. If you want to like drop a cool hint on someone, like, look how cool I am. You can say, yeah, it used to be called, the Psychology of Everyday things, but he's a big proponent of being hyper observant. So looking at your environment, taking pictures, and just looking at the world around you, looking at experiences that you're having.
And so this past week I had, I had one of those moments where I'm using my trashcan and, this is a simple human trashcan. They can, they can write me a check, send me a check later for plugging their trash can. But, but the cool thing about is that it actually has the bags built into the trashcan, so there's a little slot for it, and I'm pulling the bag out it's right there. So that's convenient. I have to go dig it out of under my sink or something. And a little tag is on the last bag, or maybe the third bag in the, in, in the, in the, in the bag, in the set. And it's like, Hey, you're running out of bags. Like you got only two left, why don't you reorder them? And I was like, that's so cool.
Like it wasn't like the last one. It was like, no, you got two more, but you probably should order it now, so you'll have one when you're actually out. And I was like, only is this bag right here? Now that I have taken out the full bag. It's here. It's telling me that, Hey, you get two more and then you're going to need some more bags, and this is the one you should get, which is of course, their custom fit, branded, you know, bag.
And I was like, I like this trashcan, this trash can is helping me.
Ayan: [00:02:26] So you're getting feedback from a garbage bag?
Evan: [00:02:28] Yes. Well, let's see it. And that's the thing. That's the thing about when you do this job long enough that it's twofold. One is you pick up on small things like that, like you're taking 30 seconds or a minute and you're staring at your trash can and you're like, Oh, you start taking questions like, wow.
So they must have like. You know, they must have thought about this process about, they must have plotted out. So I made a diagram of emptying your trash can. Right? There's someone probably out there who has done this right? And then they said, okay, yeah, we want to do it like that. Maybe two or two or three, and then go, what's the manufacturing cost of putting a tag on the third to last trash bag in the set and then so on.
Probably did a calculation of what's the likelihood of someone actually buying more of our trash bags buying, including the extra cost of putting a tag. On this bag, right? Like it's one thing to just notice. So maybe for people who are new to the, to the, to the role, that profession, the idea of this is being a profession is being observant of like looking at the small moments, the document, and I'm running through your head like, Oh, how did, how did this come to be?
And then you go deeper, which is like how much did this cost. And is this like, how, how is this like a, you know, financially like a good idea for a company to kind of invest in and put out there? And I'm just like, man, I just, how many of these trash bags did they sold because they had this little tag that they put in the manufacturing of these bags?
And then my wife was like, what are you doing?
Ayan: [00:03:58] So, did it work then did you order more bags from the company?
Evan: [00:04:01] That's a very good question. I did not actually order these bags. My wife did. But I told her that we needed more bags, so I don't know where that stands right now. I think. I think we've ordered more bags, but yeah, yeah, I had one of those moments and it's like, people look at you funny or they look at your photo stream or like, why have you taken pictures of all these kiosks?
Like, what are you doing? Like, Oh, well, I thought it was really interesting. They were that I was, they were punching in my food order and I had thought it was like, Oh, they had those different buttons. And they're just like, are you from another planet? Like what? What are you doing? Oh, yes, I Ayan, the the amount of curation of your photo stream that you have to do as a UX designer to say, Oh, all the pictures of my kids or this cool pizza I made, or, or this, this scenic vista that I went on vacation and then there's like 20 whiteboard photos or pictures of paper with doodles on it and you're like, delete, delete, delete. I have done that. That's done. Do you do like delete, delete. Anyway, that was my UX moment for this week. Have you heard anything like that recently?
Ayan: [00:05:10] Recently? I'm sure I have, but I can't think of the top of my head, but I can definitely say that my garbage does not speak to him and I kind of wish it did because I can really be assisted in certain things or just to properly how to put my garbage bag in the garbage. So I haven't really, there's this crazy mechanism that I haven't mastered yet but
Evan: [00:05:29] yeah think about what, Hey, do a workflow. What is the process of replacing your trash bag?
Like actually think of the micro little steps that it takes to remove it and put it on. That could be something that you can get used to. Like just what is the, that linear path that you have to do to create. To get that end result, which is, this thing's empty now I can throw more trash into it. So. Yeah.
All we like to talk about UX techniques and resources on the show. One of the goals that we have here is to, is to dig into the professions that you, you know, the roles, the, the people in your neighborhood that we've talked about. And yeah, there's product managers, people who have the business knowledge.
There's, there's developers, people who have the technical knowledge. Well, we're going to talk about someone a little different. We're going to talk about agency recruiters, people who match, make, who help connect talent and people looking for a job with companies who have openings. And we're very fortunate today to have Crystal Pettibone.
Let's talk about this topic. She is an account manager for Aquent, where her focus is helping clients attract and retain the best UX talent. She started her recruiting career at Aquent in 2013 when UX was really began to take off in Houston, Crystal immersed herself in the UX community, attending conferences, networking events statewide, and making key professional connections to build her network.
Since then, she's placed nearly 100 UX professionals with her clients and continues to help UX talent find opportunities and manage their careers. We're not working or attending an industry event. Crystal spends time cooking, finding home improvement projects for her and her husband to tackle and taking cute photos of her fur baby Dixie.
Crystal, welcome to the show.
Crystal: [00:07:03] Thank you for asking me to be on here. I'm really excited to talk with you guys.
Evan: [00:07:09] I've known crystal for a while now. We've actually been connecting at various different UX events, Houston UXP events. Crystal. So let's, let's start, let's start real simple. What does a recruiter do?
Crystal: [00:07:21] So, you know, really my job and most recruiters jobs is to really find solutions for our clients. Right? And those solutions are usually in the form of talent, right? We want to make the best. I like to call it a creative matchmaker, right? we try to find clients that have needs and then we find talent who match up with those needs.
So we are always out there trying to see what's on the market, what's the newest thing coming up, and where can we find the best talent and how can we help them. with their career.
Evan: [00:07:57] Okay. Okay. And so how do you, so let's, let's get into the mechanics. Like what, what, can you walk us through? What kind of an engagement with a client and, and finding talent to, to fill that role?
What is that like? How does that get started?
Crystal: [00:08:12] So just a couple of different ways and I think that what's really important is the Aquent does things a little bit differently because typically we're working, we're industry specific, right? So we have recruiters all over the world, but we have different teams.
Like we have an automotive manufacturing team. We have an energy team. So that helps us really focus in more on our clients. So that we know what they need for the beginning. So usually, for instance, by the time they come to us and we're working with them, we know a lot about the client and the company and their atmosphere and their culture.
So, so someone comes to us and says, I need a UX designer our goal is to first understand, do they really need a UX designer or are they looking for a for a glorified, you know, web designer. so really understanding the role, I think is the first part. And then what we do is we reach out to our network, whether that's our internal people that are already registered with us, or we, you know, reach out to people on LinkedIn or also, I mean, any kind of thing on the internet, we will find you as a recruiter. I guarantee you our job is to find the best talent. So, then we will go and search for these talents, make sure they're qualified, and do they really fit what the client needs, and then present those people over and hope that they get a job.
So it really is like, you know, it's kind of like dating, right? Here's it. Here's five talent, right? Let's take a little peak at their resumes. If you want to do an interview, and then if it's a fit, let's, you know, let's go ahead and get them on board.
Ayan: [00:09:53] So, Crystal, I like the metaphor you're saying of creative matchmaking. So in your opinion, what is the perfect fit?
Crystal: [00:10:00] Oh, you know what? I think that's really interesting. So it varies. One of the things that I think is really, really important about Design and recruiting for Designers and UX specifically. Is that it's not just as simple as matching a resume, right? So a lot of times people think of recruiters as like, Hey, I'm going to find it admin associated around looking for a lawyer I'm looking for, you know, general staffing. Right? I think that a lot of people kind of get that, oh, they're just, you know, burn know, burning through people and matching resumes and keyword searches and all of that. And that does happen if your general staffing, they do that and Aquent's not general staffing.
We focus specifically on these roles, UX, etcetera, and one of the things I tell my clients a lot as well is that you really can't commoditize UX design. Right? You can't. It's not enough to say, okay, [00:11:00] the client says I need a UX designer and here's the skills I need. Okay wireframing, research, prototyping and then match your resume.
That doesn't work right? Because everyone's UX resume in a way kind of looks the same, right? They all typically do the same thing. So for me, it's really about uncovering, you know, I like to call it like the X factor, right? That, you know, you can't take into account the thing that makes designers special by just doing a resume match.
And that's why I'm thinking the agency recruiter can really help differentiate you and that's I think where we've been really successful in maybe finding talent that aren't your typical UXer, right? Maybe their resume wouldn't make it through if they were just do a keyword search, it might be like, Oh, it doesn't make it through.
One of my, one of my, I would like to call it one of my super powers, is being able to uncover the other things that talent do that really make them a good fit and that has to do with culture and all of that as well of the company.
Evan: [00:12:12] Yeah. Well, so let's get into that. So let's say, let's take a hypothetical where there's someone with no direct UX experience, but they want to make that change happen in their career and so you've placed probably people who are, who various different backgrounds, various different level of experiences, and you've seen some those X factor moments, those X factor qualities. What could someone do who is just in that initial transition or is trying to do that, that work? What do you think they need to do to be successful.
Crystal: [00:12:40] So good question. And before even telling you that, you know, what's interesting to me is one of my favorite placements. I don't play favorites, but, if someone who really did not have a lot of new UX experience, she was a journalism background and then she was doing marketing for, for US soccer [00:13:00] league and,women's soccer league, and, you know, all of this.
And it was like very different. But what she was really, really good at was telling her story and understanding people, her journalism background, tied with the marketing. And then she did, you know, her new UX course. That was where I was like, okay, you are perfect for UX design. We just get to tell your story.
And I think that is, that is key. And I think it's about not, not focusing on what UX skills you don't have. Right? And not leaving out the things you've done in your past that relate to UX. Right? Journalism. Most people, like I'm a journalism background. How does it relate or does, I mean, you talk about UX and user interviews and doing the research.
I think that you have to be able to. To really tie your, he stills and tell how those skills really can be useful in UX and I think that's [00:14:00] important.
Evan: [00:14:01] So, where did that candidate, where did they, where did that journalism, where did that storytelling ability shine through? Where did it actually happen for that person?
Crystal: [00:14:09] Her resume was good, but I think her portfolio, and, you know, she did an online portfolio, which was great. I mean, she not only showed the work, but she told her story and showed her process and I think that was really key. And you know, we even talk about it still today. She's like, you know, I cannot believe that we got this job and thank you so much.
Even the manager literally told me he was like. This is, this is where as a recruiter, I'm like, you have to talk to this girl. I know. I prefaced it. I'm like, here's your resume. Don't pay attention to that as much. I said, I know she's way out in left field. Right. Who? What you seem to need. But I urge you, if you just talk with her, I guarantee you you're going to fall in love.
[00:15:00] And so part of that is building trust with the manager, right. And giving them to go, all right. And they did the interview and they hired her on the spot.
Ayan: [00:15:10] So it seems Crystal, from what I'm hearing is that for you. Communication skills, be it perhaps storytelling and it seems as also you felt that this person had great empathy skills.
Crystal: [00:15:20] Yes.
Ayan: [00:15:21] Are there other skills that you feel that can be advantageous to help somebody who maybe already is a Designer or somebody who wants to transition into this field?
Crystal: [00:15:30] Oh gosh. I think there's so many of them. I think that with UX it's interesting to me throughout the years to see the kind of backgrounds that can really thrive.
I've seen people come from, you know, like someone that has a background in 3D illustration and animation, right? Completely different that, you know, very technical and they've been super successful. And then you got, you know, the other girl doing journalism. So I think it's really, it's such a broad range.
It's hard to say that this person's great at this one is, it's about, I think the most important thing is really being a good listener and having empathy and being able to understand what users need and then tell that story and fixed, you know, be a problem solver and it's in a way I find that, recruiting the same kind of way, like, I need to understand and I need to counsel sometimes and, you know, uncover what's going on.
And I think that's, that's part of user experience at the core.
Evan: [00:16:41] Okay. So let's dig into that counseling part. So there's some common mistakes. Are there some common themes that you see with a UX or Design type candidates that you have to counsel them or you need to give them some help on? What are some common mistakes that you kind of help help coach people through?
Crystal: [00:17:23]Good question. I think it was a couple of them. I think that people sometimes they think that they don't need a portfolio or that they think that their resume is going to sell them. Yeah. That's not going to happen. I think that's part of it and also I think you have to be really humble. So people that are like, I'm the best Designer in the world and I've got this. Yeah. They typically don't do that well. Right. That's the whole empathy thing again and also, I know there's this whole thing about resumes, you know, in the past one page, right? Just one page. That's the only thing you need. That is not true either. Now, I don't want five pages. I get those from developers. I swear like I'm like, I don't need 10 pages but I think that you need to have a resume that is inclusive of all that you do without being overdone. You know, not to, don't tell everything, but. I think that's important.
Ayan: [00:18:06] And you speak of portfolios. Are there certain things that you, you know, you spoke of this one candidate that you connected with a job that had, she did very well with her portfolio cause she was able to do storytelling.
Are there certain things that you kind of advise your candidates to include in their portfolio? Is there a certain type of structure?
you know,
Crystal: [00:18:25] I'm a huge fan of you know, a nice website portfolio, you know, it's not that much to make your own site and I think it's a big, a huge factor because a lot of times, you know, in the past, designers always like use Behance and let's use these kinds of things.
Here's the problem with that. While it's a really, really good thing. If you look at someone's portfolio on Behance, the next thing it does is says, Hey, you might also like this one and this one and this one. And so we're ranked in there and you're like, I'm really good, but you know what? This guy right here is even better.
So I think you're just opening it up. I'm just like, okay, well, no, I want to focus on me. I don't want them to be like, well, here's the next best thing. So I think that's important. Another thing is I think it's really important to show your process. I know that as designers, everyone is focused on the visuals.
They want to make it look pretty and that's great. If you're a , if you are focused on UI and that's what you want to do, and your focus is on creating beautiful, beautiful icons and interfaces, by all means, then make it beautiful. What I like to see, and I think the most successful like UX design portfolios.
Show the process like, I want to see your scribbles and your scratches is there's not a post it note on there then really are you a UX designer? So I think that's important. And also for me, because as I said, just having UX skills, I don't think there's enough doing about me. I mean, let me learn about you.
Let me know what makes you tick, because I think that's so important and just understanding how you've even fit in with the team, where, where you come from, and oftentimes. I asked people like, how did you get into UX? Because to me, that is probably the question that tends to open up more conversation. I think I tell the story because it really hit me in the beginning when I was doing UX, I was interviewing, let's call them a senior UX designer, and I was like, how would you get into this?
And he was like. Actually what's really interesting is like I was in, you know, and he was in the services, right? And he was in the Air Force, I think probably back in Vietnam, but I said he was a senior designer and he said his job was to design the interface for the bomber, right? To ensure that the pilot would be able to hit the button right when it was needed, despite, you know, despite wearing big gloves and goggles and all of that.
He was like, that's where he goes, that's how I got into UX. I didn't even realize it was usability and I was like, Oh, that is where really it was like starting to put things together like I see.
And so I think that is, so if you have a story like that. It's powerful and it's, it just completes the picture.
Evan: [00:21:36] And so, the storytelling aspect, does that apply for all different roles? You can be a researcher, maybe you focus a lot on the visuals, UI design, but does everyone need to be an effective storyteller?
Like it's not just a UX skill?
Crystal: [00:21:50] Yeah, I think everyone does. I think that it's important for UX. It goes for research, it goes for you know, yeah. Even if the visual, I mean, that's right visual is more important to show, you know, obviously how pretty it is. But I think your resume tells a story.
I think that, you know, the elevator pitch that you do and you know, when you're having to run into a hiring manager on the elevator, how are you going to sell them really quickly? And I think that's important also and I think. So often people neglect that part on their resume. No. Some people get it right.
I will tell you the thing that I don't like on a resume at all is an objective. We all want to find a job. It's like, I want a job that utilizes my skills. Well, yeah, that's what we do. Instead, I want you to tell me what value do you bring, right? What is the thing that's going to make me go, Oh my gosh, I should hire this person.
And so while I said, being humble is important, it is, but you also need to be, you know, you have to be confident and you have to sell yourself. And so that might mean bragging a little bit on what you do.
Evan: [00:23:03] So Crystal for you, you touched on it before, but like mid-level candidates, so let's say people who have some years of experience and they're looking at like a lead, like a senior lead type role, Design role, or maybe even management.
What kind of things do they need to bring to the table? What kind of stories do they need to tell?
Crystal: [00:23:20] Success stories, I mean, I want to know numbers. I want to know that you've did this project that resulted and you know, people downloaded the app more, or the time to complete a process was great, and that saved money.
That's even better. If you can show saving money, then that's great. I think that, I think that's really key. And I know one of the biggest concerns where a lot of designers and I am in Oil an Gas and so, you know, a lot of it is finding it, you know, everyone's worried about showing they can't show their work because it's proprietary, right?
They're like, what do I do? How do I sell that? And I think that even if you have worked on proprietary information, you have to be able to show what you did, right? You've got to at least tell what you did. Maybe not show it. Maybe you make a dummy project, but you've got to be able to talk to those successes and what you achieved.
And, and not just, I mean, in real, like they're going to dig in like the managers are gonna ask, well, how did you do that? and the thing I think is important is own what you did, say this is what I did. And then also give credit, like most managers, if they see a portfolio, and on that portfolio project, it just says, I did this and I did that, that doesn't look like it unless truly it was like your own project and you did everything.
For the most part, I think that, you know, showing credit and sharing credit with the other people and owning what you did. It's really important.
Evan: [00:24:57] So really showing that collaboration, like you recognize the contributions of others and how they kind of fit into the greater whole. Would you agree that for junior people it's about, do you know the technique and the processes and for senior people it's about actually maybe using those techniques and processes to get outcomes to get some kind of positive result?
Crystal: [00:25:17] Yeah, I completely agree.
Evan: [00:25:18] Working harmoniously...
Crystal: [00:25:19] ...definitely. And even as a, you know, a junior designer, if you haven't done you know, I haven't done many projects. Do a project, I mean, go out and there's a lot of, you know, groups out there that were like, Hey, let's go and help their local charity and build a website for them, or do something, that you can show and even if, you know, you're like, well, it's not much. It's something and it shows that you have the, the gumption to really take on a project and, you know, I think that's really important.
Ayan: [00:25:55] Crystal. I have a question going back to actually, I really liked the story you shared about the candidate that in their background they didn't know, but they started UX when they're serving for the army.
I think that kind of shows the diversity of this field and how we all have different. You know, we all come from different spaces, but in the end we're kind of applying the same thing. But I think that also for me, what I liked about that story, it also reflects user experience. It's something that's constantly evolving.
And that's why it's so interesting to have these diverse profiles. So in your experience of working in this field, what have you seen change? What, what? How has the UX field grown, matured or developed?
Crystal: [00:26:31] Yeah. Good question. I think that said a lot of senior UX designers right now. We're doing UX before, it was cool right there, like I've been doing this for years, and so they really had to kind of share and sell, like, okay, look, I've been doing this. And they would be like, we did call it user experience. It was usability testing or human factors, so, you know, step six, seven years ago, I think it was more [00:27:00] selling what UX is and what the value of it is. I think now for the most part, most managers and companies know what UX is and the value that it brings. So I think that's really important now is you've got to say, okay, here's, here's the value I bring and the market now is it's flooded, right?
I mean. You know, and he used to be instilled, there's always a UX job out there, but more and more kids are coming out of school, out of college, and they're really good. They've got some good portfolios. Right. I mean, some of the best hires that I've made are, you know, like just completed their MBA or whatever, and they're out and they're doing great.
Right. And they're working alongside someone who's been doing this for 20 years. So it's just becoming more and more competitive. And I think that's even more so when you have to show what value you bring.
Ayan: [00:27:59] In regards to that, do you help these candidates or hires kind of, how did you help them up their game to, for that competitive edge?
Crystal: [00:28:05] Yeah, I think that I asked them these questions of, tell me the story. You know, we'll review their portfolios and, one of the other things I think that, you know, Aquent does and I think helps a whole lot. Look, I'm not a UX expert, right? I don't have a background in it. I've gotten pretty good over the years, just from the people I've talked to, but I'm not a professional.
We actually have like a network of UX professionals that when someone interviews with us, so we're putting them in our system and we're getting them ready. We can set them up with, a professional interview so you know, someone that might be in it for years and they will literally sit down and take the time to review your portfolio.
They'll ask the deep questions that I might not know to ask the same kinds of questions that they could, that managers were likely ask, and then they'll provide us a write up. So as agents, we then get, you know, complete candid [00:29:00] write up. So it's not just, okay here if they did a four on usability testing and a five on prototyping, they do some of that as well.
But they didn't really go deeper and say, here's what they can do. And, and also here's the kind of position I would recommend this person for. So I think that's, you know, I can't do all of that, but we have a huge network that I think helps prepare our candidates for that. And it really honestly because then we can then go and share that with the manager.
It just puts the candidate above, hopefully above the competition because they've been vetted and they have this professional writeup as well.
Evan: [00:29:39] Crystal, thank you so much for, for taking the time to answer some questions today. Really, really appreciate it. And I hope this has kind of illustrated some people where they're, where they're part of entry-level breaking in or a seasoned professional that, hey, if you are in the market for an opportunity, if you're looking for that next job to consider [00:30:00] that agency recruiter at Aquent, consider the services because they can be super helpful and getting you networked and getting you feedback and getting you connected to that, that next opportunity.
Crystal: [00:30:10] Yeah. Well. Thank you. And one thing I think is really important that I want to leave you with is so many people think that agencies that we're going to cost them, they think that, oh well I'm not going to use an agent cause I'm not going to pay for that I can find my own job. We are free. We don't take, you know, how much of my paycheck are you taking, we don't take part of their paychecks. This is a free service. So I think that's really important for people to know. Well, like a headhunter, which is going to, headhunters will charge you money for that. We're not, so if anyone, is charged for an agency. Don't do it. Cause it's not. He shouldn't be. We're free and we're here to help. So thank you for including me. I, I love talking about this and, hopefully I didn't talk your ear off, but, I really appreciate it.
Ayan: [00:31:00] Thank you. I feel motivated and I think you seem to be a great resource in the hands of designers, be it starting off or people who are trying to move up in their career. So thank you. There's a lot of great insights you provided us with.
Crystal: [00:31:11] Well, thank you both. It has been. Awesome to chat with y'all.
Evan: [00:31:32] It's time to answer some audience questions. If you have questions about design or user experience, you'd like to ask us, please send it to ascendUX @pros.om.
Okay.
Ayan: [00:31:42] So Evan, so today, as we can tell, the theme is hiring, and I think as a manager, you have some experience in that. So how do you distinguish from candidates who have applied online, perhaps directly to PROS compared to candidates or talent that come from recruiting agencies?
Evan: [00:32:00] So every, every company may be a little different. So this is my, this is my experience. The biggest thing is can you use a recruiter at all? So think about what Crystal mentioned. This service, this kind of relationship is free for the talent. It's free for the candidate. It is not free for the company.
So they have to, they have to pay a premium for these types of, of applicants who are coming through this. So usually there has to be sort of approval that, that you can use the service at all, that it's maybe a critical need and it needs to be filled. And maybe it's hard to fill and because it's, you remember it's their hiring manager's job to fill these roles. And so if they're struggling, if they're having a hard time with the, for larger companies who maybe have HR departments and are helping recruit themselves, they have to say, hey, I need more help. Could I get help from a recruiter? So if you're using these services. You're, you're kind of a premium candidate.
And it's also very important that those agencies have strong relationships with that hiring manager because you want to be top of mind. If, if you're looking at certain companies that you want to work for, you need to know, do they even accept agency talent, and if so, do they have good relationships?
Remember Crystal was talking about, I like to, I like to to consult with, with hiring manager she does a lot of networking. She tries to make connections and that's to help build that network, build those, those relationships so that she can offer up talent and she knows what they're looking for, so she can give good feedback to her talent about how to position themselves, what kind of experiences to talk about what they need in their portfolio.
So the biggest thing is. As someone who may use this service, understand is free for you, but know that there are some, some obstacles. There are some issues about using these types of services, and so you want to make sure that when you go through and you sign up for one of these services that ask some good questions of the recruiter.
Do you have contacts at these types of companies? The ones that meet you may be interested in some like Aquent specialize in creative talent and others specialize in other domains like IT or finance or something else. You don't, if you're a Designer, you want to find a recruiting service that focuses on Designers because they're going to have more connections they're going to have more access to get you better opportunities than they otherwise would have.
Ayan: [00:34:33] I think it also seems to, it also seems important that the person who is going to be representing you to the manager or the company also has a very strong knowledge in what you do. For example, UX. And that's what I really appreciate about Crystal actually.
Cause sometimes you don't have that in recruiters. I remember the personal experience of mine. I had an hour call with the recruiter for a UX job and she's like, great, I'm so excited. This is going to be amazing. I'm going to send you an offer that I have from a company, and then I get an offer for UI job and I was like, I don't know if I want to work with you because I don't, if you don't understand what I'm doing, how can you find me a job? You know? So I think it's really great to have people who understand what you're doing and what you can bring to the company, because in the end it seems a recruiter is an intermediary for you.
They're representing for you. And also for the company too, because you said that, yeah, your job is also to hire, but I guess there's times when you might not have the time or you need something done really fast and that seems also another advantage of having a recruiter for you is to get that job done.
Evan: [00:35:38] Yeah, you need your, you need your passport documents, you need that resume and your portfolio, but you also need to interview your recruiter. And if they don't seem like they have a strong distinction about UI or UI tasks or UX work, or they haven't been able to fill this role before - it's kind of unusual - it's not something that they actively recruit for you. You need to screen them yourself and recruit them so they're not wasting your time, and that they are actually able to put your work out there and get you connected with that next job.
Ayan: [00:36:08] Yeah, and I liked what Crystal was saying about the human aspect for both jobs, UX and recruitment, because sometimes you might have a recruiter who just wants to fill that task, hire that person for this job, but it's really great if they can talk to you and you can have a honest conversation with them and as designers, to figure out what their level of maturity is. Do they understand what you're doing?
Evan: [00:36:29] Yeah. That's important. I hope this has been informative. I hope it's something that this, this conversation with a recruiter has been turned maybe turn someone to like, Hey, this could be another resource that I could use to, to get that first opportunity or that next one. And, yeah, it's been fun.
Ayan: [00:36:47] I'm not even looking for a job and I found it interesting. I thought she brought some really great things to it, to the discussion. It was really great.
Evan: [00:36:54] Yeah. It's so much. Yeah. It's so much more than just talking about trash cans, man.
Ayan: [00:36:58] It's true. But it all goes back to care, right? Yeah. You're a garbage can company was keeping you in mind, and recruiters are keeping their clients and the talent in mind as well. So it all goes back to considering and caring for others.
Evan: [00:37:11] That's a great point. You want people in your, in your orbit, in your network that, that show that care, that show that compassion and focus on what they're doing and who they're working for. Well, Ayan take care stay safe till next time.
Ayan: [00:37:25] Thank you. See you guys next time.
Evan: [00:37:47] Thanks for listening to the Ascend UX podcast, a show made by the user experience team at PROS, a software company in Houston, Texas that develops AI powered solutions for businesses. Learn more at pros.com/ux. Our main theme music is by Ultravice. You can listen to more of his work at soundcloud.com/ultravice. Also thanks to Lakey Inspired for his music as well. You can listen to more of his work at soundcloud.com/lakeyinspired. And special thanks to our editor and producer Brandon Robinson.
Stay gritty friends!